In 2024, Democrats must defend Judge Carolyn Thompson’s seat on the N.C. Court of Appeals and elect Martin Moore and Ed Eldred to flip two more seats blue.
Democrats currently hold only 4 of the 15 Court of Appeals seats. But they can take back the Court of Appeals by 2028. Winning these seats is critical!
FLIP NC Communications Director Andrea Cash sat down with Thompson, who brings more than two decades of experience to the bench. She has been a trial attorney and served on the district court and superior court as well as the N.C. Court of Appeals. She is passionate about helping victims of domestic violence and mentoring other Black women who want to pursue a law career.
Below, she discusses her pitch to voters; what she enjoys most about serving on three-judge panels on the Court of Appeals; the importance of recusing when there is a conflict of interest on a case; being perched on the shoulders of the generations who preceded her; and more.
Tell me a little bit about your background.
I am a wife and a mom to a blended family of five adult children. Unfortunately … we lost our oldest son to a drug overdose about a year ago. We have a slew of grandchildren – seven. We just had another one. My background, academically, is: From Hampton University, I obtained my bachelor of arts degree in sociology and criminal justice. And my law degree from N.C. Central School of Law. I started off being a trial attorney. I started my own law firm, right out the gate, in Henderson, North Carolina, which is on the other side of Durham, and it covers like five counties now. I built my practice there for about 13 years before pursuing the district court bench.
I ran a heavily contested election in 2008 and became the first African-American woman to preside as a district court judge in this area. Then, I stayed on the bench there for about 10 years, and then the governor appointed me to the superior court bench. Again, as the first female and then the first African-American female to ever preside as a superior court judge in this district. I lost a very nasty race to keep the seat in 2018, went back to trial practice and family law, which was my heart’s dream, my passion. Representing domestic violence victims and their children, families broken by divorce and separation. I was a Division of Social Services (DSS) attorney. Also, my earlier stage of being a trial attorney, just forgot to mention that I simultaneously ran a private practice and also I was a contract attorney for abuse, neglect, and dependency and non-support courts for Vance and Warren counties.
Then I was appointed in 2023 to the Industrial Commission, as a deputy commissioner, a quasi judicial role, where I presided over cases involving workers’ comp. And also some of the tort claims coming out of prison, where the inmates would file suits. We presided over those cases. And then, lo and behold, I get a call from the governor's office [in 2023] to come in for an interview to replace Justice Riggs – when she was elevated to the Supreme Court – to take on this position as a Court of Appeals judge.
What do you like most about being on the Court of Appeals?
I love being able to transition back into the trial court posture of a case. The first thing I look at is the record. Because I've been on the bench, and I've been a trial attorney, I can actually [go], “Oh, I know what was going on there. I understand what was happening in that room on that particular day, or a jury instruction that may be challenged on appeal.” Been there, done that. I love looking at the record. And it should read to me as a story from the beginning to this point of saying, “Hey, Judge, why don't you take a second look at what happened here? Something went wrong in this courtroom, and I want you to take a look at it.”
And so it's like a fact-finding, law-finding, justice-finding moment for me when I get the box of cases. We typically get anywhere from 24 to 48 cases a month. We are responsible for authoring at least four of them per month. … When I get the DSS cases – because that was my backbone, that was how I made my bones, as they say in the streets, being a DSS attorney and family law attorney – I can go back and revisit the area of law and what was happening in the courtroom on that particular day.
Tell me about your passion for helping women and families. Where does that come from?
That comes from my childhood journey. My mother, whom I lost two weeks after this [Court of Appeals] appointment, was my champion. My Moses, if you will. But as a child, I watched her struggle with domestic violence. When I grew up enough to know that I wanted to be an attorney, to help children who are living in environments and dealing with stuff like my brother and I did in our childhood, I knew that I wanted to be an attorney to help families who were broken by divorce. I knew that I wanted to be an advocate for victims of domestic violence. So, along my career path, I would represent women and their children, pro bono, until I picked up a contract here or there to represent domestic violence agencies. But that's been the core of what made Carolyn fight in a courtroom. Because when you have lived something, and you've seen outcomes, you want, as an attorney, to have a passion, to have something to make you want to get up and fight for your clients.
And that's pretty much what I tell young lawyers now: Find something that makes sense. Or that will drive you to do the extra for your client – because otherwise the law will just consume you and you're just finding yourself checking off the blocks. Eventually, becoming a domestic violence advocate, I ended up writing a book about domestic violence, and it's called “Abigail’s Veil.” I'm also an ordained minister, and what I kept seeing, over and over again, were the clients coming to me under this pressure of staying in relationships that were toxic and violent because of religion. Because of what's taught to them. I founded Abigail's Veil, which is a non-profit. I educate the church – the faith-based community – about the importance of: Stop saying “stay and pray” because that just re-victimizes.
I read that you wrote an essay at an early age about wanting to become an attorney. Can you share that memory?
It was a “what do you want to be when you grow up” kind of thing. It’s crazy. My mom kept this essay all these years, and I found it in her papers when I was cleaning out the house. I wrote about wanting to be an attorney because all I knew then was Perry Mason. And Perry would stand in court with his hand in his pocket and win every case! I don't know why it clicked with me as a kid. If he can do it, I could do it too!
And so I wrote the essay: I wanted to be an attorney. The teacher wrote back something along the lines of: “You may want to try being a teacher or a nurse” or something like that. She also wrote at the top: “Hope you don't waste your mind.” My mom, who was 4’11,” got fired up and took me right back up to that school. She told Mrs. Adams: “My baby girl could be whoever she wants to be. And I better not hear anything different.” Here we are. I’m 56 years old, and I'm in the legal profession.
How would you describe your first run for elected office?
My first bite at it was running for district court judge in 2008. And the politics of being in a rural town where everybody's expecting the next person to take the bench because his father was on the bench for 26 years. It was like a rite of passage for my opponent at that time. I caught a lot of flack [for] wanting to challenge the chief judge’s son for the seat.
It wasn't about being the best at what I was arguing that I could bring to the bench. It wasn't about qualifications. At that point, it was about the system not wanting and not ready for an African-American female to take what was known in the community to be my opponent's next rite of passage. And I challenged it and went for it. (Editor’s note: Thompson won that race by 4 points.)
How does the Court of Appeals work? Why does it matter?
When I'm in canvassing mode or really just talking and engaging with people, I don't want to get into the weeds about the “thee, thou, those, and thuses” of the court system because it just goes over their head. We have the issue already of trying to convince people to vote for judges and why it's important to vote for judges. I just break it down. I'm in a barber shop, and I come up against, “Well, the court system has never done anything for me.” [I respond with:] “Hey, guess what? The most powerful thing you can say in a courtroom are two words – I appeal.” When you do that, you're telling somebody, “Something went wrong with my case.” And here's my second shot at getting somebody else at a higher level, to take a look at what happened in the lower courts.
When I'm talking to somebody about child custody issues and it's like, “Well, if in that case, you did not have an opportunity to present your evidence, or you felt like the evidence was not looked at correctly, guess what? You get to say, ‘I appeal’ and it comes up to the court.” I hear it all the time. “Well, I don't have any reason to go to court.” “I'm not going to go to court” because they think it's all about criminal procedure or criminal law.
And I touched so many areas of law [when I practiced]. I mean, disputes with your county board or commission. Or disputes about land and nuisance claims because the pigs smell, and it affects your property rights and your property values.
There are so many issues that are brought to the table at a Court of Appeals level that you will never even get to the Supreme Court about because we are the meat and potatoes of issues in this state. Meaning that we are the last resort. For a lot of cases, this is it. This is your answer. And it sets precedents often, especially if I publish the opinion. That is how you then instruct the lower courts. From now on, this is how you deal with this particular issue because now the Court of Appeals has published this opinion that says this is how this particular case or circumstance should be handled from here on out. So I don't get into the weeds about the legalisms and how to get to the Court of Appeals. I try to make it make sense, if you will, to the average voter, to the average citizen. … I try to make it as simple as possible.
What is your pitch? Why should people elect you to the Court of Appeals for eight more years?
I never bring up my opponent’s name and what they're doing or what they're not doing. I stand on what I'm doing now, what I have done to earn the spot to be here. And it all comes from experience – 27 years in, you don't get to the Court of Appeals because of party affiliation. You don't get here because you know somebody who knows somebody. You get here because folks have confidence in the work that you've done.
The fact that I can look through lenses that are unbiased, not pulled in anybody’s direction. I'm not in anybody's back pocket with their agendas. I'm doing the hard work, answering the questions for folks who are vulnerable to a system, needing answers.
I tell people, my files are not blue; they're not red. They are folks with file numbers in every situation that look to this powerful court to say yay or nay, yes or no, right or wrong. I'm on the bench doing that right now. I've had the privilege of sitting in this seat for the citizens. It's not Carolyn’s seat; it’s not Judge Thompson’s seat. This belongs to the state of North Carolina, and I'm working my butt off to make sure that people know you're getting a fair shot when you come to my court.
How do you think that your previous experience as a trial attorney helps you be more informed as a Court of Appeals judge?
You absolutely need to have the trial experience to get you to the place of understanding what procedurally happened below. If, for example, a case comes up regarding jury trials. I've been a superior court judge, and I've sat and presided over jury trials. And I know what's required of us, as superior court judges, to give the right instruction, to properly inform the jury about how to consider the evidence that's been presented, and that they are the sole trier of fact. They are the only ones who can come out with a decision based upon the instructions that I've given them.
You can't get that not having presided before in the superior court judge position. As I train young lawyers or wannabe lawyers, I tell them: When you've been in a trial and a fight, that space at the table where you're sitting beside your client, nobody comes across it unless you allow them to. Be ready to object when it's timely. Be ready to put the record before the court, in case you need to go above. But if you've not tried a case, then you've not been in the trenches. You've not had the experience of hearing something come across to the judge that needed to be objected to – so when it gets to the Court of Appeals, if you haven’t objected, then you haven't preserved the right to argue about it in the Court of Appeals.
Again, that's about experience. That's about having been there and done that. And if you've not done it, then you're doing a disservice. You’re not day one ready.
You sit on these three-judge panels with other Court of Appeals judges, and I've heard you say you really enjoy that dialogue. Can you just expound on that – the interaction between those three judges?
A good day is when we don't agree. Because it gives me an opportunity to present why I think it should go in a particular way. Especially if I'm the authoring judge, if I'm responsible for authoring it and anticipating a dissent from my colleagues, then I'm already geared up, prepared for the discussion about why I intend to author it in this manner. Versus maybe the two of them may agree – and disagree with me.
I'm always prepared to write a dissent if I have to write a dissent. But if I'm the authoring judge, it's like you're trying to convince the other two why the court should rule in this manner. It’s a lot of exchange going back and forth, even after the conference. If we're still not in agreement, that requires us to get in there and research their position. So to me, it's not about rubber stamping. It makes me want to do better and be better at research and looking at the law and looking at the situation. And not having a tunnel vision that my way is the only way. But come armed and ready to talk about why I feel strongly about a particular outcome in a case.
How is it decided who authors it?
It’s not anything systematic. It's a random thing that happens. Of course, if I'm familiar with the parties, or the situation coming out of the county, then I am recused.
We get our calendars in advance. So we can look over and make sure we don't have any prior dealings with. And of course, the first couple of weeks on the bench, there were some cases that I had some involvement with, either as an attorney, or as a presiding judge, or simply because it came out of my county and I'm very familiar with it. I sent up a note saying, “Hey, I have a conflict of interest.” Because you just want to avoid anyone being able to say, “Oh, she was not fair. She was influenced.” We get a shot at looking at the docket before we are assigned to write it.
I'm glad you brought up recusal because that's just a norm, right? That's not a requirement. We've seen this in our country lately – people don't always recuse.
Which is so unfair to the citizens who are looking for the branch of government to make sense, you know, about fairness. And if you know you have a conflict, or it could even bring up something that could cloud transparency, it’s the simple thing. Let someone else handle that, so that folks can have confidence in our court system and trust it.
Voters are going to be electing three people to the Court of Appeals in 2024. Of course, we're hoping that it's you and also Martin Moore and Ed Eldred. Can you say a few words about your fellow Democratic candidates?
NC Court of Appeals candidates Ed Eldred, Martin Moore, and Judge Carolyn Thompson and NC Supreme Court Justice Allison Riggs
I am so excited to be on this team. And Ed, I gave him his [slogan]: Standing tall for justice. I’m all of 4’11” like my mom, and here’s Ed up here towering. I said: “Standing tall for justice.” I was so proud when he started using that. He's a solid rock kind of guy. You're not going to get him roused up or down. It is just what it is. He has this dry sense of humor. But at the same time, I love his passion for fighting for parents in DSS court. That being my background and knowing that Ed has been in there swinging, making sure that parents’ rights are protected.
Then you've got Martin, who is young and on fire for justice, being a public defender and representing the interests of the marginalized community and those who are too poor to pay for high-priced attorneys to fight for their due process in court. His ability to stand flat footed and talk about justice is incredible.
Along with the Supreme Court Justice Allison Riggs, who's seeking eight more years on that court, you are running as a slate. The four of you seem very much united and committed to helping each other in these elections.
We have to. This is a situation that's impacting two of the highest appellate courts statewide, and we have to run as a team. A win for us is a win for Justice Riggs, and a win for Justice Riggs, it's a win for us. Every time we're out in the 100 counties, we're talking about T.E.A.M. Thompson Eldred, Allison (only because we didn't really know what to do with the R), and M for Moore. Long term, long game, we are flipping our courts to a more balanced and fair court than what we're seeing right now.
FLIP NC, as you know, is committed to bringing attention to these judicial races this year and going forward. I know you feel strongly about this. We've got to keep these races at the forefront of our minds. Why is that important, to be thinking about judicial elections all the time?
In 2022, I was on the ballot with the appellate team, and we kept saying, “Don't forget the judges.” That was the whole push. And guess what? There was [ballot] drop off. When you look at the stats, folks came in, circled at the top, and didn't come down to get the appellate court [selections].
Now we're dealing with gerrymandering. We're dealing with suppression issues. We're dealing with the basic rights of folks being challenged on an appellate level. So I'm really hoping that we're not just saying don't forget the judges, but telling folks why. And the consequence. Showing them proof in the pudding. When we did not vote for judges the last time, these are the fallouts. This is what's happening.
And we've got to get ready for redistricting all over again. As Martin says, the domino has to fall now, in this race, to get us to 2028. Telling people about what we do and not just putting on a robe and then going behind a curtain and never coming back out, can't be the role for us anymore.
We have to stay engaged in our communities, going around 100 counties. Not when it's an election cycle, but even in between, so we can stay visible. And people can understand our values and what we bring to the table. No, we can't tell you how we will rule on a particular case. But when you know my heart, and you know where I am coming from as a grandma, as a mom to a person who lost his life to this drug epidemic. I lost my sister to a long-term fight with diabetes because a lot of times she couldn't afford it. And thankfully, now, insulin is more affordable. But knowing our background and where our fight and our passion comes from is important.
… And I can tell you, the last campaign, I hit personally 88 counties of the 100 counties. [I got] a whole new car after that because it was it was on its last leg. Because I wanted people to see Carolyn, not as a candidate, but as a person standing in the gap, wanting to fight the good fight. To make sure that democracy stands even after I'm gone, and that it's still here for my youngest grandson, who's only 18 months, Jeremiah. To say that when it's all done with, I stayed and fought against anyone and anything that would try to take away the right to be free, safe.
As you're traversing the state, what are you hearing from voters? What's at the top of their minds right now?
I was in church in Wilmington yesterday, and a young lady came out of the choir stand. She said, “You know what? I wasn't going to even vote this time until I heard you talk about what you do.” Light bulbs go off in my head, like “ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.” That's a good day. Because when I can tell somebody about their rights being challenged, as we were standing there talking, and she then made the decision. I'm going to do better about my decision not to vote, and I'm going to go get registered. Then we made it possible for her to have the tools that she needed on a phone and say, “This is where you need to go to get registered.” And we’re going to follow up with you to make sure you get registered to vote and get ready to vote.
Then, you have a conversation with those who are just adamant that it doesn't matter. “My vote doesn't matter.” And you have to talk about – if you are not at the table, with your vote, you're being served. A vote not voted: It's still a vote. … You try to emphasize to them that it’s bigger than you. And it's bigger than this moment of your disgust or apathy with the voting process. This affects generations to come. You have to love your community and your family enough to say, “Alright, I'll try one more time. I'll vote one more time.” Can you please just vote one more time? That's all we're asking. We'll deal with after the election. But for right now, can you just vote one more time? So I'm emphasizing everywhere I go … make sure you don't forget to judges. But exercising the bloodstained right to vote is important.
You are one of two people of color on the 15-member Court of Appeals. You're the only woman of color on the bench, which is obviously not reflective of our state's very diverse population. There are persistent racial disparities in the justice system. What can be done to increase representation on the bench and in the whole system?
I think it’s important to encourage young African-American women from law school, if not middle school and up, that it’s possible. I am honored and humbled by any opportunity … to encourage them to take this path. I just remember the first day walking into the Court of Appeals, knowing I was the only African-American female in the building that was going to sit on that bench. ... Security came over and asked me, “Who are you?” It just brought back a flood of where I’ve been, fighting this fight. Fighting not just the glass ceiling as a woman, but fighting for the right to be in the space because I’m an African-American woman who’s made every effort to do the work, show the work. That I am capable and experienced and qualified to be in this role.
… It begins with a discussion with the generation behind me. I am perched on the shoulders of the generations who made it possible for me to even be here. You can take my hand, and I will show you the path to get on a bench or to argue in front of the Supreme Court or to sit on the Supreme Court. That’s so important.
Judge Thompson and NC State Auditor Jessica Holmes
Jessica Holmes, who is running for state auditor, … said something so profound. She was talking to my sorority, our sorority. She said: “It’s one thing to be appointed. It’s another to be elected.” That just resonated in my core because I’m thankful to the governor for this opportunity for appointment. But how powerful a message it would send if, in an election, we recognized the value of bringing diversity to a bench that impacts the entire state. Not just my community. But the entire state. And I think we could do a better job of making sure we make the bench more diverse, not because it’s politically correct or a sound bite of what matters. But because it reflects a state that needs to hear from all of us.
You believe that mentorship is really important. You don’t feel that because you’re on the bench, you need to step away from your community involvement.
I have a young lady who wants to shadow me on the campaign trail. She is thinking about becoming an attorney. When I talked about how I wanted to be an attorney from the sixth-grade essay, I didn’t have any role models [back then]. I didn’t even know that Black women could even be attorneys. I shared with you how my sixth-grade teacher wrote – “you may want to think about being a teacher or a nurse.” I didn’t have anybody to go to.
So when I hit the ground being an attorney in a small, rural community, one of the first things I did was recruit and open up an all-female law firm to give an opportunity where I didn’t have that opportunity. And now in my golden age, I see how folks look at my path and my journey as a possibility of what they can do. So when this young lady, out of all the interns that have asked to come into my office, told me her story, I wanted to make sure she understood that those are just temporary obstacles.
When you set your mind to something, anything is possible. But you first have to start believing in your gifts. Mentoring is very important to me. Otherwise, I’m just holding space. I’m not doing anything to help my community if I can’t reach back and help someone else come be where I am.
You’re from Oxford. Tell me about your town and why it matters that you’re representing your town on the bench. There’s geographic diversity to be discussed here as well.
I was actually born and raised in Danville, Virginia. I landed here in Granville County to raise my family. When I became the first female at the district court level, and all of the young ladies who were attorneys – we only had a handful, pretty male-dominated area here in my district – the excitement in their eyes! And when I left the district court bench, being able to give them recommendations about what to do to get to the district court bench.
And now seeing diversity on the bench, with a lot of women now being district court judges here in our district: It’s a proud moment to say I believe that fight opened the doors to possibilities for others wanting to come against the notion that women are just attorneys and can’t be on the bench. Now we have a more diverse bench in my district.
Oxford, being the bedroom community that it is, still has a lot of activity that requires judicial involvement. I’m hoping that somewhere along the lines, when I go back to the high schools and I talk to the kids – especially in juvenile court, which was also my strength and my passion when I was on the bench – to talk to them about how to avoid coming into the judicial system on the wrong end of the courtroom. That remains very important to me.
Specifically, how can someone help you in these months before the election?
It’s going to be about boots on the ground. It’s difficult raising money to get a message on TV, or a commercial, all the mailings you see … from the president, the governor’s race, what they consider the top-tier races. It’s going to be important for folks to be our ambassadors. To talk about the importance of the courts. To be able to say: I volunteered to get somebody to the polls on election day. Or I volunteered to knock doors to talk about Carolyn’s experience versus her opponent not having any experience. I need help getting the message out about the importance of voting, not just for Carolyn, but for our team. Specifically, if you have the means and ability, $5 buys a sign; $5 gives me more money to put Facebook out there to a wide range of folks.
I get it – we are all tired of the commercials and the requests for money. But with that, I would encourage folks to not turn a blind eye to the importance of the judicial races. And remember to keep me at the seat of justice.
It’s not the easiest time to be in government, and it’s not the easiest time to be an elected official. What is providing you hope these days?
I’m a licensed and ordained minister. My faith – that keeps me going. It gives me strength to get up and try again another day. … I have to go inward and find balance. Knowing that God has everything in control. … It’s my responsibility to walk by faith. If it’s for me, to stay on this bench, I’m going to be on the bench. If not, then that means God has something else for me to do that is going to bring people together for his cause, for his good.
Is there anything else you’d like to add?
That night that I came to the [FLIP NC] kickoff [in February], I left so encouraged. … When you all put it in black and white on the screen about the [judicial] seats and the importance of the seats, it was an aha moment for me. “Somebody gets it!” Finally. That the court system matters. That it’s been a sleeping giant for so long. And the other side has gotten wind of that, and that’s why they’ve been picking us off one by one. I left so encouraged that [FLIP NC] said we’re going to donate our time, talent, boots on the ground to get people to understand the importance. … I’m just thankful.